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**bonedancer-SiN** · 05-10-2008

So i'm going to stop playing my Guardian till release. I've learned most of the talents and all of the playstyle and anything more now would just be a grind.

The Guardian in AOC is the single best tank class. It takes damage well but much like the Protection Warrior in WOW does not dish it out well. Guardians may use 1h Slashing or a Blunt with a shield or go the route of a two handed Pole Arm. Both styles of play share common specials under different names, such as Pole Arm's "Guard" or Sword and Shield's "Counterstrike" which are both designed to parry damage back to the attacker. The commonalities dont stop there, both styles have stamina drains, sweeps, knockbacks, armor debuffs, and 'heavy hit' moves.

Skills
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The Guardian gets a number of skills making you have to choose between the follwoing skills:

* Bandaging
* Fast Healing
* Perception
* Hide
* Taunt
* Climbing

I'm currently keeping Bandaging, Fast Healing, and Taunt capped and have like 30's in hiding an perception.

Stances
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The Guardian gets 3 types of 'stances' in AoC: Stances, Stratogems and Manuevers. These day long buffs are designed to help you min/max your character to your playstyle. You can only have one of each day long buff type (stance, stratogem, manuever) up at any time. I normally run without a stances (or nuetral stance), Unguarded Attack Manuever, and Bolster the Line Stratogem as it fits my offensive talent/playstyle.

* Frenzy Stance - Greatly increase outgoing damage output while greatly increasing incoming damage (+100% incomming damage, post patch)
* Defensive Stance - Greatly reduce incoming damage while greatly reducing outgoing damage.

Note: There are several interesting talents that augment these in the Solider line. One for example will half the Frenzy stances incoming penalty down from 100% incomming to 0% which combined with Full Plate might be enought to make it viable 'all the time'.

Manuever's and Stratogem's
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* Hold the Line (Health, but you are snared)
* Bolster the Line (Stamina, but low threat)
* Enduring Defense (duh)
* Unguarded Attack (duh)

Finally, we get a 'anti-CC' stratogem that I've used two or three times, its not very effective or at least I was rooted everytime I remembered to cast it.

Talents
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There are three talent lines available to the Guardian: Soldier, Juggernaught, and Tempest. The Soldier tree is common to Dark Templers, Conquerers, and the Guardian and seem to have many passive or generic abilities that suit tanking. The Tempest line focuses on Polearm damage which seems pretty lacking at this point in the game. The low damage of a Pole Arm (10-15% over a 1h Slash) is offset by slower speed, and fewer utility moves. The msot robust and diverse powers come from the Board and Sword approach of the Juggernaught line.

I've made my current build primarily around solo leveling. It is likely I will be using different talents when we are running final as players will be more bundled together in level ranges making dungeons and the exp penalties of +10 level players a thing of the past.

Jugernaught
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+5 Toughness (Armor)
+5 Weaponmaster (+6 damage)
+6 Battlecry and Improved Battlecry (Stamina Regen and +5% you & party damage)
+5 Momentum (Decrease charge timers and add damage multipler to charge damage *key*)
+1 Readiness (Reduces timers on all sword and shield attacks)
+1 Shield Charge (note without Momentum this shares the same CD as Soldier charge)
+2 Shield Sweep Improved (adds snare, need to spend these two points on something to unlock lower tree anyways)
+5 Swift Overach (decrease cooldown time, coupled with Readiness OR is up every 3-5 seconds)
+1 Brutal Overach (increase crit rate on Overeach)
+5 Vengence (allows you a quick response to any of your teammate being hit)

Sadly, the whole right side of the Juggernaught tree is pretty garbage with a bunch of bleeds attached to your moves or stances. I tried several variations of the 'ultra defensive but high bleed' builds and they all add up to crap both in PVE and PVP.

Soldier Talent Lines
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+5 Recovery (Health Regen)
+5 IronSkin (Armor invulerability imrpovements)
+3 Sustained Rage (+6.3 dam)

Talent Link for Level 54:
http://hybes.de/featPlaner.php?class...001-25,4012-23

Talent Link I intend at 80
http://hybes.de/featPlaner.php?class...013-21,4014-21

Some stats
---------------------------------------------------
Based on my current level of 54 here are some example stats. I have equipped a level 52 Kopesh 1h sword and I think I had a res debuff on me of -2% but at these low numbers its not terribly relevant.

* Null Stance: 74-119
* Frenzy Stance: 111-178 (Battlecry buffed, 113-182)
* Defensive Stance: 63-101

PVE Strat
---------------------------------------------------
A typical PVE pull for me is 3 mobs between +2 and +3 levels of me. If I dont miss any of my combos (especially the turning blow) and the mobs are all stacked properly I do not need a heal pot, 2 pulls never do.

* Frenzy Buff, Battle Cry
* Charge (spamming an attack to the unshielded zone)
---See this image of the 'Troy' attack: http://www.afraidyet.net/photoplog/i...picture012.JPG shown cast by me against Enux who was +10 levels
* Remove Frenzy Buff
* Swift Overreach (first mob is often dead or close to dead)
* Turning Blow (reduces incoming damage)
* 1,2,1,2,1,2 (spreading damage, waiting on SO to cycle back, you can choose to Brutal Enraging Strik here but I prefer not to depele stamina)
* Swift Overach
* 1,2,1,2
* Plexus Strike (steals stamina)

PVP Strategy
---------------------------------------------------
In PVP that same opening sequence works pretty good. The multiplier from Momentum + Shield Charge produces 600+ crits (had a 930 today on an even con). If you forget to come out of Frenzy stance like I did against a Demonologist today you are going to regret it and with bugged potions being the way they are just about everyone can heal up that damage and get away. However when potions arnt the way they are my follow ups can be pretty strong

* Shield Bash (ae knock down, can be talented to have a snare)
* Back up (think warrior intercept)
* Frenzy Stance
* Charge + damage (the soldier version, not the talented shield charge)
* Frenzy Off
* Swift Overeach

Reactionary Buffs
---------------------------------------------------
* Wrath - When you are attacked by you get a boost to your damage (think rage but instead of it being dps potential its straight bonus to your stats). The buff can stack to high proportions (i.e. grab many mobs stack it up and unload).

* Vengeance - Basically this is the TEAM version of Wrath above. The Vengence buff is applied to you when your teammates are hit and it stacks making you harder and harder to 'ignore'. Having not grouped that much in the Beta I missed out on the opportunity to 'exploit' this to max my damage.
Update: I got a chance to intentionally stack Vengenace to 10 and use my vengence base attack moves (also tried my shield charge trick) and the results are pretty impressive. I believe funcom has found a way to solve the 'ignore the tank' problem.

Odss & Ends
---------------------------------------------------
Finally, the Guardian has some great talents/abilities that I didnt cover two in particular are Fear (duh), and Improved Plexus Strike which turns your stamina leech into a shared stamina leech with your group. On a stack of 3 mobs I can almost completly replenish my stamina pool with this talent.

Summary
---------------------------------------------------
This class will run casters out of mana and foil rogue classes till the cows come home but in the end when its time for you to punish them for depeleting their resource pool you dont have the damage to do it. There is loads of room for creative play here, most Guardians, myself included, have not learned how to swap weapons intelligently in a fight based on the conditions, and many of the powers remain unexplored. This is team based class and you should be aware of that before pressing create.

-Bone

05-10-2008	#1 (permalink)
bonedancer-SiN Guildmaster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Tampa Posts: 777 Class: Dwarf Thanks: 1 Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts Update Profile Rep Power: 10	The Guardian So i'm going to stop playing my Guardian till release. I've learned most of the talents and all of the playstyle and anything more now would just be a grind. The Guardian in AOC is the single best tank class. It takes damage well but much like the Protection Warrior in WOW does not dish it out well. Guardians may use 1h Slashing or a Blunt with a shield or go the route of a two handed Pole Arm. Both styles of play share common specials under different names, such as Pole Arm's "Guard" or Sword and Shield's "Counterstrike" which are both designed to parry damage back to the attacker. The commonalities dont stop there, both styles have stamina drains, sweeps, knockbacks, armor debuffs, and 'heavy hit' moves. Skills --------------------------------------------------- The Guardian gets a number of skills making you have to choose between the follwoing skills: * Bandaging * Fast Healing * Perception * Hide * Taunt * Climbing I'm currently keeping Bandaging, Fast Healing, and Taunt capped and have like 30's in hiding an perception. Stances --------------------------------------------------- The Guardian gets 3 types of 'stances' in AoC: Stances, Stratogems and Manuevers. These day long buffs are designed to help you min/max your character to your playstyle. You can only have one of each day long buff type (stance, stratogem, manuever) up at any time. I normally run without a stances (or nuetral stance), Unguarded Attack Manuever, and Bolster the Line Stratogem as it fits my offensive talent/playstyle. * Frenzy Stance - Greatly increase outgoing damage output while greatly increasing incoming damage (+100% incomming damage, post patch) * Defensive Stance - Greatly reduce incoming damage while greatly reducing outgoing damage. Note: There are several interesting talents that augment these in the Solider line. One for example will half the Frenzy stances incoming penalty down from 100% incomming to 0% which combined with Full Plate might be enought to make it viable 'all the time'. Manuever's and Stratogem's --------------------------------------------------- * Hold the Line (Health, but you are snared) * Bolster the Line (Stamina, but low threat) * Enduring Defense (duh) * Unguarded Attack (duh) Finally, we get a 'anti-CC' stratogem that I've used two or three times, its not very effective or at least I was rooted everytime I remembered to cast it. Talents --------------------------------------------------- There are three talent lines available to the Guardian: Soldier, Juggernaught, and Tempest. The Soldier tree is common to Dark Templers, Conquerers, and the Guardian and seem to have many passive or generic abilities that suit tanking. The Tempest line focuses on Polearm damage which seems pretty lacking at this point in the game. The low damage of a Pole Arm (10-15% over a 1h Slash) is offset by slower speed, and fewer utility moves. The msot robust and diverse powers come from the Board and Sword approach of the Juggernaught line. I've made my current build primarily around solo leveling. It is likely I will be using different talents when we are running final as players will be more bundled together in level ranges making dungeons and the exp penalties of +10 level players a thing of the past. Jugernaught --------------------------------------------------- +5 Toughness (Armor) +5 Weaponmaster (+6 damage) +6 Battlecry and Improved Battlecry (Stamina Regen and +5% you & party damage) +5 Momentum (Decrease charge timers and add damage multipler to charge damage key) +1 Readiness (Reduces timers on all sword and shield attacks) +1 Shield Charge (note without Momentum this shares the same CD as Soldier charge) +2 Shield Sweep Improved (adds snare, need to spend these two points on something to unlock lower tree anyways) +5 Swift Overach (decrease cooldown time, coupled with Readiness OR is up every 3-5 seconds) +1 Brutal Overach (increase crit rate on Overeach) +5 Vengence (allows you a quick response to any of your teammate being hit) Sadly, the whole right side of the Juggernaught tree is pretty garbage with a bunch of bleeds attached to your moves or stances. I tried several variations of the 'ultra defensive but high bleed' builds and they all add up to crap both in PVE and PVP. Soldier Talent Lines --------------------------------------------------- +5 Recovery (Health Regen) +5 IronSkin (Armor invulerability imrpovements) +3 Sustained Rage (+6.3 dam) Talent Link for Level 54: http://hybes.de/featPlaner.php?class...001-25,4012-23 Talent Link I intend at 80 http://hybes.de/featPlaner.php?class...013-21,4014-21 Some stats --------------------------------------------------- Based on my current level of 54 here are some example stats. I have equipped a level 52 Kopesh 1h sword and I think I had a res debuff on me of -2% but at these low numbers its not terribly relevant. * Null Stance: 74-119 * Frenzy Stance: 111-178 (Battlecry buffed, 113-182) * Defensive Stance: 63-101 PVE Strat --------------------------------------------------- A typical PVE pull for me is 3 mobs between +2 and +3 levels of me. If I dont miss any of my combos (especially the turning blow) and the mobs are all stacked properly I do not need a heal pot, 2 pulls never do. * Frenzy Buff, Battle Cry * Charge (spamming an attack to the unshielded zone) ---See this image of the 'Troy' attack: http://www.afraidyet.net/photoplog/i...picture012.JPG shown cast by me against Enux who was +10 levels * Remove Frenzy Buff * Swift Overreach (first mob is often dead or close to dead) * Turning Blow (reduces incoming damage) * 1,2,1,2,1,2 (spreading damage, waiting on SO to cycle back, you can choose to Brutal Enraging Strik here but I prefer not to depele stamina) * Swift Overach * 1,2,1,2 * Plexus Strike (steals stamina) PVP Strategy --------------------------------------------------- In PVP that same opening sequence works pretty good. The multiplier from Momentum + Shield Charge produces 600+ crits (had a 930 today on an even con). If you forget to come out of Frenzy stance like I did against a Demonologist today you are going to regret it and with bugged potions being the way they are just about everyone can heal up that damage and get away. However when potions arnt the way they are my follow ups can be pretty strong * Shield Bash (ae knock down, can be talented to have a snare) * Back up (think warrior intercept) * Frenzy Stance * Charge + damage (the soldier version, not the talented shield charge) * Frenzy Off * Swift Overeach Reactionary Buffs --------------------------------------------------- * Wrath - When you are attacked by you get a boost to your damage (think rage but instead of it being dps potential its straight bonus to your stats). The buff can stack to high proportions (i.e. grab many mobs stack it up and unload). * Vengeance - Basically this is the TEAM version of Wrath above. The Vengence buff is applied to you when your teammates are hit and it stacks making you harder and harder to 'ignore'. Having not grouped that much in the Beta I missed out on the opportunity to 'exploit' this to max my damage. Update: I got a chance to intentionally stack Vengenace to 10 and use my vengence base attack moves (also tried my shield charge trick) and the results are pretty impressive. I believe funcom has found a way to solve the 'ignore the tank' problem. Odss & Ends --------------------------------------------------- Finally, the Guardian has some great talents/abilities that I didnt cover two in particular are Fear (duh), and Improved Plexus Strike which turns your stamina leech into a shared stamina leech with your group. On a stack of 3 mobs I can almost completly replenish my stamina pool with this talent. Summary --------------------------------------------------- This class will run casters out of mana and foil rogue classes till the cows come home but in the end when its time for you to punish them for depeleting their resource pool you dont have the damage to do it. There is loads of room for creative play here, most Guardians, myself included, have not learned how to swap weapons intelligently in a fight based on the conditions, and many of the powers remain unexplored. This is team based class and you should be aware of that before pressing create. -Bone __________________ -end of line Last edited by bonedancer-SiN; 05-13-2008 at 07:51 PM.
$bonedancer-SiN 15 0FF11\|\\|3$