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Old 06-18-2008   5 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1 (permalink)
Meir-SiN
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Default First Siege

PFB did the server's first siege (world first?) this morning at 6am EST on LOTD, a few Sinister who were online decided to take the opportunity to see how "polished" siege warfare was. The naysayers were pretty much deadon. It took little time to break down the main gate (max of 4-5 mins), buildings in general go down really fast with the full raid on them. Siege weapons don't work yet, and the mercenary system isn't in (we had to drop our guild for the siege in order to not kill each other even in the same raid). Keeps still have vunerable areas where you can just run past the walls (on the LOTD keep it was on the right side of the outer wall). After breaching the outer wall we ran into the major problem (I guess?) of sieging. LAG. I run a quad core 2.4ghz 2 gig ram and a 8800GT, and I had a solid 2-3fps once we engaged (btw i spent 500 dollars upgrading my pc for this game). Trying to actually fire combos and kill anyone was virtually impossible unless they were rooted.

I imagine melee classes were banging their heads against the monitor in frustration. Unless a roadblock was setup at the gate etc a group of people can just run past the full raid and maybe one that gets rooted will die. We also found that lag caused the inner wall of LOTD's keep (the right tower) to be basically invisible. We ran straight into, and out of it on the other side. It also seems that there is a cap on the zone of 96 players, because PFB had roughly 30-35 players and some of our guys could not zone into the Border kingdom because it was full (LOTD had a shit ton).

To sum it up in a nutshell, until they fix the insane lag with around 90 players on the screen, sieging will be very boring, and no fun at all. I am VERY disappointed. Call me emo, but this is game breaking. This IS the endgame of AoC for most of us, period. I stated a few weeks ago that they had to have this shit fixed by the time battlekeeps went up and its not. Is it even possible for them to tweak the game engine enough to make sieges playable? Got me. I really, really enjoy this game. I'm willing to give it a bit more time because of that. Only time will tell how things will go, but patience is not one of my virtues.


I read some suggestions about ways to decrease the lag and I'm sorry for not giving credit but I didn't bookmark the responses on the general forum:
1.) Limit Sieges to 24v24 (Get rid of the plan for 150v150...)
2.) Load default skins for armor to the players in a border kingdom. This may be a GREAT suggestion. Anyone who wants to PvP doesnt care all that much about how shiny their helm is, we want to kill people. I was in Lash Border kingdom last night with 15 guild members and had 40-50fps, zoned into it this morning with 10 (with 30 players around me), then 2-3 with 80+ on my screen.
3.) Default skins for Border Kingdom buildings

General Suggestions:
1.) Get siege weapons working
2.) Allow the attacking team to res at a tent (not sure if thats how its supposed to work or not)
3.) Tweak walls so people can fire down and fire up (not just AE down), if they fix the lag issue this will greatly increase strategy and the fun factor.
4.) Aquire points anywhere in the zone, not just 2 feet from the outer wall (we had some battles near rivers and bridges)

Any other suggestions?
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Last edited by radek-SiN; 06-23-2008 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008   #2 (permalink)
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Below are argo's pics. There in png format so its big but im to lazy to convert them to jpg.

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Old 06-18-2008   #3 (permalink)
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Here are a few of mine (no action sorry to much lag to do it when there was some).

Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

Btw I ran past this entire group without getting killed
Click the image to open in full size.Click the image to open in full size.

I hearted in the middle of 20 ish LOTD/Darkhand camping the res spot near the end and this happened
Click the image to open in full size.

UI never came back up alt z didnt work etc had to hard crash.

Last edited by radek-SiN; 06-18-2008 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 06-18-2008   #4 (permalink)
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So yeah...Sieges are not under control at all yet. The biggest problems are:

a) The 48 vs 48 doesnt work for shit. Its like 96 ppl per zone and LoTD had the usual zerg there (including PRX, DDH) what blocked a good amount of our guys out. If the zone is full and you die it just kicks ya out and resses you at a random gy in the world. After the first ppl got locked out/ressed out I would guess it was around 60 defenders against 36 attackers in this siege.

b) Siege machines dont work.

c) The Keeps themselves are bugged as hell...you can walk by walls, through walls, through buildings and stuff.

d) Theres only one gy for the attackers which is so far off that it aint funny.

e) Merc system doesnt work, you have to guildhop to help your allies, whats stupid and annoying.

f) The lag...its insane, beyond everything you can imagine. On my computer i couldnt move a step, on macs computer thats really good I had a kickass 5 fps.

So yeah...Im hoping theyll fix endgame content :-/.

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Old 06-18-2008   #5 (permalink)
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So, even if they fixed the raid numbers (48v48), fixed the keep buildings & walls (no more bugs or gaps to walk through), Implemented the Mercenary system (no more guild hopping), and performace was not an issue (everyone getting at least 30-50FPS)....

You'd still have them resing on your head the entire fight, while we get booted to a far off Res point?

Oh, and if this had been us getting seiged, how would we have defended with 6 players online?
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Old 06-18-2008   #6 (permalink)
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This is a little depressing, but thanks for the report.

Fixing walls, merc system, siege engines, balancing structure hitpoints etc sounds like relatively easy fixes. Optimizing the engine may not be entirely trivial though, so thats the most worrying issue.

Did you notice any network lag, or was it client lag only?
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Old 06-18-2008   #7 (permalink)
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Amazingly enough, they had guys setting alarm clocks to get up :P

This was the worst. When I was in the damn middle of the fight, my dual 8800 Ultras on low settings were grinding away at 5FPS or so.

I got killed naturally my uber tissue cloth armor didn't protect me against what seemed like 500 LOTD tagged players, and to my dismay when I rezzed I ended up in the oasis..

Loved it! Good job Funcom, can't wait to see the next 30 days of patches. Hope this gets corrected quickly.
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Old 06-18-2008   #8 (permalink)
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Just FYI, don't play on low settings, you get worse performance that way. Use high settings always.
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Old 06-18-2008   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus View Post
Just FYI, don't play on low settings, you get worse performance that way. Use high settings always.
with any computer? cuz I have tryed it and my game wouldnt even move after I click Apply.

Quote:
quad core 2.4ghz 2 gig ram and a 8800GT, and I had a solid 2-3fps once we engaged
I might as well quit AoC now lol... I still have a amd 3500 with a 8600gts 256mo, I lag as hell when im in the guild city. so I dont even want to think how I'll lag with 96 players
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Old 06-18-2008   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angus View Post
Just FYI, don't play on low settings, you get worse performance that way. Use high settings always.
I turned them down after I was getting 3FPS on high! - shader 2.0, etc etc etc.

Not pleased.

Ok, now I'm going to get dual GTX 280's and see if I can get 7FPS out of em - I've decided!
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